Insurance

[hotnuts21]

Does DO or any of the designers have Proffesional idemnity Insurance?

I am in the middle of writing a Huge proposal for a big site and they require that both myself and any sub contractors have proper indemnity insurance. So I was wondering?

[ejlain]

Hi Hotnuts.
No, wish I could help you out. I don't have it. I DID look into it at one point and I know it is pretty EXPENSIVE. Maybe you could talk to the client and see if you could maybe feel them out a little, see what their concerns are...are they worried about someone putting the wrong phone # on the site or being sued for copyright infringement on a stock photo. You might also want to talk to your insurance agent who handles your auto insurance (if you drive) or your homeowners (if you own a home) and see if they have any type of "temporary riders", just something to cover you for the duration of the project.

Sorry I couldn't help ya more.

- Ed

[motiveX]

I have health insurance.

:blink:

[hotnuts21]

This is for a large proposal, I think if I go in there asking about how worried they are about the insurance, that might be me binned automatically.

Its just part of the brief that any sub contractors have the required insurance.

This brief incidently is huge, we are talking establishing an image for large organisation, stationary, banners, cd roms the works. So it would be quite lucrative.

[hotnuts21]

Come on guys has no one got Proffesional indemnity insurance (your living dangerously)

This project is to create a image for a specific organisation, this image will be used on a variety of things. It will also include a website, CdRom etc and will be a huge budget.

This will be a high paying project and I dont want to go elsewhere. I am happy to work with just one or two designers who can provide a marketing and product portfolio?

I suppose if I win the job, I could pay for your insurance, this could be negotiated.

[Palmer]

I have life, auto and home insurance. Does that count? :)

[hotnuts21]

:blink:

[WildCard]

hotnuts, since everyone including management says they don't have that expensive insurance, and you absolutely have to have it, maybe you need to find a organization that has it instead of trying to get these guys to get the insurance to serve you.

OR since it sounds like you really want to do your contest here, maybe you should do a regular contest, then you can BUY a temporary insurance policy just for that designer (they have temp health and life insurance, do they not have temp indemnity policies?).

Then, it's not a burden to the artist working for you. Make sense?

-WC-

[hotnuts21]

Yep that makes sense, I just wanted to offer the guys here a share in a potentially large contract.

Im also very suprised no one has it, working in the web industry and not having proffesional indemnity insurance is like being a jet pilot or formula one driver and not having health/life insurance.

Palmer I would seriously reccomend you take legal advice or at the least ask on sitepoint about it.

As for the temp insurance it isnt available over here. I would if I got the contract be interested in buying it for a year for a designer, however there would be more interest in going for a UK based designer then.

Its actually not that expensive if you shop around.

[WildCard]

Is this a UK thing? I've never seen anyone ask about this - and I frequent a few webhosting / webdesigning forums.

-WC-

[hotnuts21]

Proffesional indemnity, if you want to even be part of some large elance type sites you have to have PI before they even accept you.

All I can suggest is that you ask in one of the many forums you frequent how many have it and how important it is, then post back here.

Or I will start a topic on sitpoint forums if you want me too?

[Palmer]

Paul, personally I've never heard of this before. Do you have it?

It's not like we're going to all go buy it because 1 company who you only have a proposal in the works for requires it. It may be different if you had already received the bid.

As you know we are all freelancers who are independent contractors. It's not like we're some big corporation that gets thousands of dollars for a logo and can afford to buy all the insurance we can find.

In addition, although it may appear like it at times, money is not the driving force behind what motivates us. We do this because it's what we love to do. The money is a perk. From my experience, the bigger the payoff, the more demanding, difficult and unappreciative the client is. It's not worth the headaches.

Just my opinion...

[rlevant]

In addition, although it may appear like it at times, money is not the driving force behind what motivates us. We do this because it's what we love to do. The money is a perk. From my experience, the bigger the payoff, the more demanding, difficult and unappreciative the client is. It's not worth the headaches.


It shows.

[hotnuts21]

Palmer I get what you are saying.

Yes I am just in the process of getting it, its expensive but I need it!

I understand people dont want to buy insurance and thats fine, I dont mind if anyone here doesnt buy it I can get design work elsewhere for this one project.

I was just more suprised people dont have it, its not because its a luxury its because the more I have looked into it the more I realise its important for my business.

here is a thread I started on sitepoint a while ago when I was first looking into it. There is a good explanation on there of why people should get it or at least consider the options in having it.!!

http://www.sitepointforums.com/showthread....069#post1007069 (http://www.sitepointforums.com/showthread.php?p=1007069#post1007069)

A good example for you guys would be if you designed a logo for a company and they went about using it etc. Then 5 wks down the line mr multimillion ££ corporation comes around and says, hey that looks like our logo you cant use our brand image. Sues your client for 5 million. your client will then be told by his financial advisor to seek the damages from you , since you provided the logo.

This page gives a quick and easy overview of PII
http://www.pro-ii.com/aboutpii.htm

Also a web site that outlines the most at risk business and why you should carry it.
http://www.1st-business-insurance.co.uk/pr..._insurance.html (http://www.1st-business-insurance.co.uk/professional_indemnity_insurance.html)

<!--QuoteBegin-www.1st-business-insurance.co.uk+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (www.1st-business-insurance.co.uk)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Professional Indemnity (“PI”) insurance is an insurance package designed to protect business offering professional advice or services. Professions that often require Professional Indemnity Insurance include: Consultants, Web/Graphic Designers, Bookkeepers and Advertising Agents. [/b][/quote]

[Palmer]

If we had multi-million dollar clients we wouldn't be here :D In addition we could probably afford expensive insurance.

I spoke to my stock broker (who also sells insurance) and even he doesn't have it. He advised me not to buy it either based on the small number of clients I have right now. Maybe later down the road it will be a necessary thing to have.

[hotnuts21]

Well of course its upto the individual and as well as having to find out for this proposal im putting together, I also thought that its probably a good point to discuss.

Incidently my bank, Business advisor, Local IT Grant advisors and accountant all told me to get it!!

Just need many more clients to cover the cost of it now :)

[hotnuts21]

If we had multi-million dollar clients we wouldn't be here

I forgot to mention thats exactly the point small business needs it. Its not how much you charge or pay for your clients, its how much damage is perceived to have been done. So even for a $100 logo you could still be sued for costs into the 100's of thousands!!

As for you broker not having it Palmer, next time he gives you some duff advice dont forget you can sue him for millions ;)

[WildCard]

Can you give 2 good examples of where logo designers would need to protect themselves from a buyer of a $100 logo?

Maybe they can work around this insurance by having Palmer's lawyer draw up a standard disclaimer that would exempt any of the independants from being liable. Anyone posting a contest would have to agree to it.

-WC-

PS: Who is the designer that designs for national TV stations? It would be good to get his take on it, since he's one of many deeply in the biz.

[hotnuts21]

Read the info on those links I posted, especially the sitepoint one. There are some hypotheticall examples there, as well as the one I posted above about your design looking like a multinational.

I dont think most people in here have anything to worry about, but it is something to bear in mind in the big bad world, especially for companys starting up.

[sdollen]

Hey Palmer,

Being a series 7 registered rep and also Health & Life licensed in my state - your stocker broker, I'd be willing to bet a gazillion dollars on, has what is called "E&O" insurance. Errors and Ommissions. It covers our butt if a client asks us to place a trade and we don't for some reason, or we place the trade incorrectly.....

I just saw an instance of this where a broker took a trade over the phone, got distracted and didn't place the purchase order. The particular security went up in price, client wondered why he didn't get debited for the trade, called the broker, broker realized her mistake, client could have netted out almost 20k if the purchase had been done and he sold the security in question the day the error was noticed (a very up day in the market that day).... the rest is history as they say.

Just a little FYI.

As for personal indemnity insurance - it sounds very similiar to E&O insurance. I did a Google search and everything pointed to that it's something common in the UK. Maybe it's the U.S. version of E&O...

Anyway ;) enough boring stuff.....

[Palmer]

Thanks for the info. Boring but helpful :D

[mittentopbranden]

I think Hotnuts is an insurance salesman.
:lol:
Just Kidding...
-B

[Eagle]

*
Re: Copyright etc...

Who's responsibilty is it to check that a design does not infringe copyright? I'm sure it's the owner/user and not the designer...

[hotnuts21]

E&O and Indemnity are the same thing (more or less) just called different in different areas of the world. In Aus, they have something else too but I cant remember whats its called !!