Is too many designers bad?

[E1veb]

I was confused that you are artificially limiting the number of designers, not by their quality level, but by a chosen number of designers you don't want to cross.. In your message, you mention that hsots are getting overwhelmed, but isn't that a good thing?

It seems that at current, sometimes people will take a very long time to find an acceptable image, but even if it speedy, it would make sense, at least initally, to have as many designers as possible, to have the widest possible choice.

Again, I know you know this far better than I do, I'm just trying to follow the reasoning.

On a side note, Does anyone ever offer to buy some of the losing entries? I mean, let's say you were looking for a logo.. I know for SQ7, I'd certainly appreciate havign as many Sq7 images as possible, even if they weren't the one I chose. There are a lot of in-game things I could do with a hundred logos ;)
Is there any policy for such things?

What about previous revisions of the current logo? Or other submissions from the same winner?

I'm just trying to figure the entire forum out...

Colin

[rlevant]

Hi Colin,

From a customer point of view more quality images the better.
Overwhelm me Please :) :tup:

But for a moment think what this would mean for a designer...

They spend hours doing stuff and have less chance of winning.

Already we get rates that are WAY below what these guys could get elsewhere.(except perhaps at WHT where they compete with low end folk and often loose to bad taste *chuckle*)

If he kept allowing good folks in and so it got less and less wort their time...how many of these already busy excellent designers would stay?

And wouldn't it be some of the very best ones who would leave first.

Well we as customers don't want that either eh? :)

So to be fair to the designers is in the customers interest as well as being a matter of justice...

Especially those of us who could not get this sort of stuff on our budget's elsewhere..
We would have to scale down our projects or their quality

That is my take on it anyway

best

Renee

[E1veb]

Very reasonable. I actually hadn't considered that people would leave as the competition became more crowded, as I under-weighed the value of money in the reward process.
My thought was that most people are dong this as a resume/portfolio build, and thus the money and winning weren't as importaint of factors.. Hence, why they would be willing to do it for "WAY below what these guys could get elsewhere".

Thanks for the information. I do try to understand such systems, and I'm glad it exists.

Colin

[rlevant]

You bet.

When first came I knew these guys were good.
But I did not realize HOW good.

Go check out the gallery and then visit some of their webites

I started to get it after disturb reality was a winner in my A Writers Life auction and I checked out his website.. The site itself is good but not a WOW..BUT check out his work MAN!

Maybe it was his ad for Crime Scene Investigation (the one I watch constantly on TV )
That started to clue me in .

Then I was nervous about asking for my more creative and involved sort of stuff
Look what I ended up with!


This is one of the rare places where you feel privileged to pay for service :)

And often embarassed by the riches that result from a contest ...


I do think for some DO launches them and the publicity can help bring them to a different level. I cannot magine better advertising for a designer....

But many of these folks are established designers

I keep worryng that Disney will come and wisk Cre8or away :( !

:tdown: :(

Because no other place like this exists on the internet..and other most "contest" sites are much lower end and less professional it does take a while to really get a sense of what s here:)

Enjoy!

Renee

[E1veb]

Thanks for the advice!

But the more I think about it, wouldn't the highest quality people just win out in a contest, thus not having to leave?


I mean, Dave who has four PHDs in Graphic Design is certainly going to beat out Dr N00b with a pirated copy of Paint Shop Pro..


I am consistantly amazed by the quality of work here, and I am honored to have my work submitted. I would never want to imply anything less than the greatest respect to those here.

I'm just trying to be an educated contest host.. I see so many people who come to forums, post once, and then demand the world. I'm trying to learn the process, understand the ideas, and then hopefully do a good job in giving people a reasonable challenge..

[ElKootcho]

Speaking for myself, one reason I design here when I could get "WAY more somewhere else" is really quite simple. I've been in the design industry for nearly 10 years but several of those years have been spent in somewhat of a niche market: motion picture advertising. That means what I do day-in and day-out tends to get somewhat redundant in nature. Don't get me wrong, I like the industry and the pay is pretty good but it's nice to have a site like DO to branch out and do some different stuff. Plus, there's no pressure. If I'm too busy with work or family life I can simply take a break from DO and get back to it when I'm ready.

Sure, I like adding pieces to my portfolio but it's still my career and I still want to get paid for my work. I really think most contests get a good mix of designs to choose from. Certainly more than any of these business would likely get if they simply contacted a single designer. Especially for the price. There are not many places you can go and get a dozen quality logo designs to choose from for $125.

Add more designers and as rlevant said, my chances of designing the selected logo go down and therefore my time becomes worth a little bit less. I think it's better to think of DO as a design firm rather than an open forum.

DO has been in existance for about 13 months. I've been a proud member of the design team for close to 10 months. There is a strong community of designers working behind the scenes in non-public forum that I can bounce ideas off of, get advice or just shoot the breeze. There are several active designers that have been here for the same amount of time (or longer) as I have been. Although I've never met any of them in person, I feel that they are people that I can count on, that have strong business morals and have a real sense of pride in what they do.

Plus, DO is still in it's infancy stages. It's continually growing and no doubt will turn into something quite interesting. And I plan on being here to see that happen.

It's a good place to be.

[Palmer]

The site has evolved over the past year from young designers just needing to build their portfolio to established, very talented professionals. Unfortunately the current site does not reflect that change.

That is the whole reason for the "Change in direction" we are in the process of going through with the new design and all. Some of that info is in the "appreciation" thread in the contest holders private forum as well as the thread in the template forum for our new design.

[ElKootcho]

But the more I think about it, wouldn't the highest quality people just win out in a contest, thus not having to leave?
I mean, Dave who has four PHDs in Graphic Design is certainly going to beat out Dr N00b with a pirated copy of Paint Shop Pro..

That's the difficulty of this business. Everything is based on personal opinion. There is no formula for good design and I'm sure all of us have seen horrid logos, brochures and web pages. That means somebody liked it.

Not to mention, what if there were 20 Daves with 4 PHDs each? 19 of those highly skilled designers won't be paid for their work.

On a side note, Does anyone ever offer to buy some of the losing entries? I mean, let's say you were looking for a logo.. I know for SQ7, I'd certainly appreciate havign as many Sq7 images as possible, even if they weren't the one I chose. There are a lot of in-game things I could do with a hundred logos
Is there any policy for such things?

People have bought multiple logos in the past. You can just contact Palmer to work out payment details for whichever you're interested in. Also, as another example, if you chose a single design and then wanted multiple variations of that design you could contact the designer directly and negotiate payment. There have been several logo contests in which the CH has asked the design to also create business cards and letterhead. This is handled directly between the design and client.

[rlevant]

Just to respond to your question..


First ...there are no pirated copy of paint shop pro types here.

Or if there are..you can't tell because of the quality of the talented hackers work (and we would never know because Palmer would (I suspect) not be a happy camper) ;-)

Laugh us academics heh... We actually believe our degree's make us better at real world non scholarly skills. Experience is key to Professionalism..here not degree's :huh:
I understand your point about 4 phd's in design..but wanted to point out that our grad school/faculty lingo can sometimes make us loose track.

In computer grad student geek terms-- Remember the Incompleteness theorem;-)

By the way..Two dear friends teach in your department Professors Susan Landau and Neil Immerman...they rock!

It's fine to want to understand the place..My suggestion would be that asking about it here will only take you a very tiny bit of the way.

Better check out the gallery ..and contests and then go look at other sites

The difference should become clear ;)

[rlevant]

Hey Palmer

With the change in direction...
You guys won't start charging what you deserve and price us out ...

will you? *shivering*

:(

[imageconstrux]

Palmer also walks a tight rope with regard to designers and contest holders. Or vicious circle might be a better way to explain it.

If you have one designer and ten contests, chances are the designer simply won't have time to get to all of them and do a good job on all.

If there were 10 designers and one design, the designers are no dummies; if they know their odds are one in ten, they may not enter. Heck in my landscaping business, if I know I'm bidding against 5 or more companies, I don't bother bidding. We're not the lowest price, and those people will usually make their selection based on a $50 price difference on a $10K project. Same with the designers - no sense killing yourself over $75 when you only have a 1 in 10 shot.

So he has to bring on a few contests, then bring on a designer. Bring on a few more contests, bring on another designer. As original designers stop participating, bring on another designer. So it's a real supply and demand game he has to play.

(I'm a company owner so I always feel for the guy running the show - he never gets as much credit as he deserves.)

For my part, I was loving the designs back when there were only a half-dozen or so designers. There's quite a selection now, and the people who are really good at their niche thing can now just specialize in that. This all works in both your favor and theirs.

So yeah, I think Palmer has the balance about right....I have noticed the suggested minimum creep up, but hey, the designs are clearly worth it.

[rlevant]

And they did not go up much ..just little creep...I can still play

[ElKootcho]

My thought was that most people are dong this as a resume/portfolio build, and thus the money and winning weren't as importaint of factors.. Hence, why they would be willing to do it for "WAY below what these guys could get elsewhere".

Most of the designers here are professionals, not students looking to build a portfolio. I'd guess that there are basically 2 classes of designers here.

1> full-time/part-time freelance. Working for yourself means you probably don't have as much work as you'd like to have all of the time. DO is a good place to fill in the gaps.

2> full-time designers (employed by a agency or firm). DO is a good place to get away from the 9-5 world working with the same clients day-after-day and make a little extra cash which is always nice.

Of course not every design falls into these 2 catagories but I think most would classify themselves in one of the above.

[Palmer]

<!--QuoteBegin-rlevant+Jan 7 2004, 06:32 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (rlevant @ Jan 7 2004, 06:32 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Hey Palmer

With the change in direction...
You guys won't start charging what you deserve and price us out ...

will you? *shivering*

:( [/b][/quote]
Good point. We don't "charge" anything for the designs. The contest holder determines how much to offer. One of the goals though of the new site is to represent the team as highly skilled professionals (which they are) and get offered amounts closer to what they deserve.

[KellyB]

I started to get it after disturb reality was a winner in my A Writers Life auction and I checked out his website.. The site itself is good but not a WOW..BUT check out his work MAN!

Hey Renee :) Wasn't I the winner in your "A Writers Life" auction?? :)

[rlevant]

Kelly :tup:

You bet you won The Writers Life Contest. Man you must have done a million versions and they just kept coming and getting better (not that I asked for all those changes even LOL)

And I STILL want to set up that site with the sheep :lol:

Yes Kelly the winner AND we also declared Disturb Reality a winner as we loved both.

I am still hoping to get those two over to my egypt contest :lol:

I'll have to do one with Ram Gods for Kelly :tup: :lol:

Rev Renee

[KellyB]

aaaaaah !! :)

That's what you meant :)

Thanks Renee for clearing that up :) You're a star as always :)

[Web Rhino]

Firstr time I came here, it was for fun, now, I'm staying because I like the ppl around here, it's like playing with the Pros ;)

[SonnetCelestial]

I think I wouldn't take it personally if I get delayed in app, basically because too many cooks *could* spoil the pot.