Natl. Resale Assoc. *Project Complete*

[Adele]

(Admin code added by Palmer - V19968703)

Prize $150 + Bonus Ads in our B2B Newsletter & Website - Deadline September15th.

I have been lurking on DO for a while now. What a fantastic site, offering the opportunity to work with a group of very talented designers! I’ve sent some of our members here for their store logos and the results were phenomenal. Now it’s our turn! I'm detailed by nature and thought it better to let you know what we're looking for rather than have you waste precious time guessing.... thus the long post.

Prize: $150 - As a little bonus, we will announce the winning designer in our monthly newsletter and giving you a free half page ad. (You can submit your own ad copy.) When we premier our new logo on our Website, we'll include a thank you to the designer with contact info and link to their site.

Company: National Association of Resale & Thrift Shops (NARTS)

Profile: A 20 year old Not For Profit trade association for resale, consignment and thrift shops...the only trade association for the industry.

Logo Use: Website, stationary and other print materials.

Info for Designers: I uploaded a page to our server containing: Current Logo & Nav Bars, Color preferences and links to fonts used in current logo. I hope having everything in one place makes it easier for you. http://www.narts.org/DO/

Current Logo: I designed this logo myself in Paint Shop Pro. I know it’s very fuzzy, rough, too flat looking, and name is too long for one line. I had an idea and tried it but I am by NO means a graphic designer. We like this logo, but don’t love it. I am very open to new ideas and/or fix-ups or take-offs of current logo.

Text to be included in logo:
1. NARTS (All CAPS)
2. TM (I like the way the TM is embedded in the “S” of NARTS in current logo)
3. National Association of Resale & Thrift Shops (Upper & lower case)
I realize our name is long - it can split up as follows:
First line “National Association of” smaller
Next line “Resale & Thrift Shops” larger

Icon: Either stand alone or incorporated into or around text. MUST be related to recycle symbol with 3 arrows. I don’t particularly want the traditional round or triangular recycle symbol. Would prefer something more contemporary which included the 3 arrows denoting the symbol. Icon that could be used on it’s own would be a nice bonus but not a requirement.

Look: Crisp, clean, contemporary and colorful - not as flat looking as our current logo. Maybe a little 3-D and want Gradient used. Nothing whimsical... we’re B2B so need to maintain a professional image.

Fonts: ONLY interested in Sans Serif. I actually like the current fonts very much but am open to something new.

Colors: Icon - VERY interested in trying Lime/Apple Green to reflect recycling. Also like the logos which combined the green with teal. “NARTS” should be in a shade of our current purple - we’d like to try a darker shade. An additional color that fits in well is welcome but not necessary.

Size: Final logo should be smaller than our current logo.

Formats: From what I’ve seen here, I’m guessing I need:
.GIF - .JPG - .BMP - .TIF - .WMF - .PSD - .EPS - files with Transparent background
At least 3 copies in Scalable Vector (1 each; Full Color, Grayscale and Black/White).

Also need the final logo to include a version with an extra line of text (nothing fancy, just a line of Arial italic) above or below the logo. Don’t worry about this until we declare a winner... just didn’t want to pull any surprises on you.

Deadline: September 15th

I look forward to all your creative entries and I promise to be very interactive...giving you lots of feedback...promptly. I’ll also be honest with you and, realizing that you are working on spec, try not to waste your time on unnecessary revisions that could wait until I select the winning design.

I remember reading a posting on here that long names were difficult to work with... I truly hope that doesn’t stop you from entering. We’re REALLY excited about this! Thank you and I look forward to working with you. Adele

[Mowling]

Hello...here is some concepts. Let me know of any revisions you would like.

thanks,
Matt

[Bill]

Here's a start...

[Mowling]

well...I don't know what happened there.

[Adele]

WOW... two designs already! Thank You!

Matt - I like the first recycle symbol best - it transfers very well to blk/wht - would like to see it with the shading you used in the second symbol. Would prefer the icon to be smaller in relation to the name and I'd like to try something other than the traditional circle or triangle symbol - perhaps you could play with an oval. "NARTS" needs to be in purple to match our nav bars. BTW, it's "Resale" not "Retail" Thanks for a great start!

Bill - Love the shape of the arrows with the small tails. Not fond of the fonts. "NARTS" is too thick and plain and the full name is in Serif. ALL fonts must be San Serif as per my lengthy, perhaps boring post. :) We're really set on using the colors outlined in the post that I show on the attached Web page. Green/Teal and Purple. I've seen some dynamite logos you've done... I hope you'll give us another shot.

Thank you both for kicking this off! Adele

[shnickerdoodle studios]

One from me...

Thanks,
Deanna

[Mark]

Here's my entry :)

[Adele]

Deanna - Thank you for your design... I was hoping you'd enter. I'm really seeking a differerent look than that. I want a font that isn't so plain. Would you mind trying something in the Tablet font I posted? The color is also a little off the purple that matches our nav bars. Thanks again and I hope you don't give up on us right away!

Mark - WOW!!! I was SO excited to see how great you made the Tablet font look with the darker color and 3-D feel. I also LOVE the "swoosh" --- something I'd never considered but it fits in so well. Also like the the way you changed the shape of recycle symbol. I'm not sure about the "N" being larger than the other letters since it's our Acronym. I'm going to try to ask you for all the revisions I'd like to see at once... here goes:
1. All letters in "NARTS" the same height
2. Delete line under NARTS- it's too similiar to the first logo we used for years.
3. Perhaps you could drop tail of the "N" and tuck the full name in to the right.
4. Try changing the Teal to Apple Green.
5. I'd like to see an option with the full name in green instead of purple. Not sure it will work but worth a try.
6. Could you make the "swoosh" look 3-D like the bar does?

Thank you so much... Adele

[Mark]

Hi Adele, here's the changes you requested.:D

[Adele]

Mark - Thanks for the revision. Looks much better. I'm afraid I didn't explain myself correctly about changing the color. I want the "NARTS" to remain puple. Wanted to see the "National Association of Resale & Thrift Shops" (full name) in the green to match the swoosh and recycle symbol. You changed the teal to turq.... I'd like to see it in Apple Green. I didn't have a color # but put some DO sample logos in my Web page indicating what I considered Apple Green. Great work! Adele

[Mark]

Sorry about the confusion. :blush:

Hope I got it right this time :)

[Adele]

Mark - Thanks for such a quick revision. You got it right. However, I think it looks best with "NARTS" and "National Assoc... etc." both in the same color. What's your professional opinion? We really thought we wanted to change the Teal to Apple Green but it doesn't look as good as I expected. Do you think a different shade would work? Thanks again, Adele

[Mark]

I think the top one of my last submission looks best!:D

[Adele]

Mark - I agree the top one looks best. I like it and you're certainly on the right track. If you are willing to try a few more ideas... perhaps something with the full name broken up into two lines. "National Association of" on first line smaller size and "Resale & Thrift Shops" on second line in a larger size --- right justified to the "S" If you have any other ideas on the recyle symbol - something more contemporary - I'm open to seeing it. Thanks, Adele

[Adele]

Anxiously followed the postings all weekend hoping we’d get more designs. Saw lots of beautiful new logos, but alas, nothing for us in two days. I fear I scared you off with my lengthy posting. We really have a good idea of what we’re looking for and were trying to save you time. Perhaps we’ve hindered your creative juices. If you have an idea... please show it to us. I’m trying to be a ‘good contest holder’ by providing information & feedback. Is there is something else I should be doing to gain your participation or are you just waiting for closer to deadline? Is anyone willing to look at our needs again? I’ve tried to clarify things below. Thank you... Adele

Info for Designers: Current Logo & Nav Bars, Color Preferences and Links to Font(s) we’d like used in new logo are here: http://www.narts.org/DO/

NOTE: I know designers are not allowed to copy each other’s work, however, I believe all your designs will end up somewhat similar if you follow my specs since we’re very specific as to content, color and fonts. Basically, we’re looking for a professional “take-off” of our current logo with your creativity added.

Elements to be included in logo:
1. NARTS (All CAPS)
Purple to match Nav bars. Shaded from #A800FF to #8900D0. 3-D and Gradient used. Want to use Tablet font. It’s an interesting font - you can do a lot with it to make it unique.

2. TM (Want it embedded in the top right side of the “S” in NARTS)

3. National Association of Resale & Thrift Shops (Upper & lower case)
Probably best in purple. I realize our name is long - it can split up as follows:
First line “National Association of” smaller
Next line “Resale & Thrift Shops” larger
Font can be Papyrus or other San Serif choice.

4. Icon: Either stand alone or incorporated into or around text. MUST be related to recycle symbol with 3 arrows. Don’t really want traditional round or triangular recycle symbol. Prefer something more contemporary, oval shape, which includes the 3 arrows denoting the symbol. Color = #009393 or #27C2BB or an Apple Green. An additional color that fits in well is welcome but not necessary. I think icon would be more interesting in varying colors/shades of green.

Misc. ONLY Sans Serif fonts. Unless you have a contemporary font that is as unusual as Tablet, I’d rather stick with it. Final logo should be smaller than current logo. Do NOT want bar(s) separating “NARTS” and “National Association of, etc.” Do NOT want text inside a box. Want logo that will look as well centered as left justified.

[Adele]

Mowling or Moderator: Would you please resize Mowling's posting to fit within the width better. Please do NOT remove it as we asked for revisions. Thanks, Adele

[DesignGeneral]

Hi :)

[DesignGeneral]

;)

[Adele]

DesignGeneral: Thanks for your design! You sure gave the recycle symbol a new slant. Could you try a revision:

1. "NARTS" - please straighten the letters so they face front. I'd like to see them closer together with a longer tail on the "S'

2. Could you try the full name (National Association of Resale & Thrift SHops) on 2 lines - Second line begins at Resale - right justified to the "S" in "NARTS"

3. Color - don't like the black. Purple looks more burgundy/wine than our Nav bars. Did you use the color(s) I indicated? Would like "National Association, etc." in the darker green.

4. Icon - Too large in relation to text. My 1st thought was that it looked like a tent. I see that they are arrows... maybe it needs 3 large arrows. Want the icon to be all in shades of green.

Thanks for your unique perception on our logo. Adele

[Adele]

DesignGeneral Wow... I like the 2nd one MUCH better than the first. Let's work with that one. Thanks for embedding the TM.

1. Kern the letters in 'NARTS' a little closer
2. Change "National Association, etc." to dark shade of the Purple. - Try it on 2 lines as indicated in last post. Would also like to see a version with it on one line.
3. Icon is really unique! Would still like to see it smaller in relation to text.

Thank You!!!

[DesignGeneral]

Hi Adele,

Thanks for the feedback.

Here are the revisions ;)

Cheers :D

[Adele]

DesignGeneral Thanks for the prompt revisions. Gail, our Director of Membership Services, has left for the day. I'd like her to see these before I comment. I'll get back to you in the morning.

If you have any other ideas for the icon I'd love to see them. I like the thin arrows... can you try oval in shape instead of triangle? You're on the right track. By the way, did you check the "Purple"? - It still looks burgundy/wine color to me. Adele

[Adele]

Mark I'm still interested in seeing a revision on the top version of your last submission.

1. Full name broken up into two lines. "National Association of" on first line smaller size and "Resale & Thrift Shops" on second line in a larger size --- right justified to the "S"

2. If you have any other ideas for the recyle symbol - something more contemporary with thinner lines - I'm open to seeing it. Thanks, Adele

[DesignGeneral]

Revised colors ;)

[DesignGeneral]

;)

[Adele]

DG... you just keep getting better! Colors look great and like the full name divided into 2 lines. I think that's the only way we'll be able to assure our name is readable when the logo is small. It was one of the main problems with our current logo.

I'm kind of partial to your last version. Gail and I will give you more feedback in the morning. Thanks for sticking with us... Adele

[Adele]

DG Let's work off your last version #5:

1. It looks like "NARTS" is shaded from dark at the top to light at the bottom. I like that, now can you make it 3-D. I want those letter to have some depth.

2. The 'S' in NARTS appears to have more weight that the other letters. In our current logo all the letter are the same size with the tails cut off the A,R & T. Could you try that please?

3. 'National Association, etc.' all in one color. Could we see two versions. Purple #8900D0 and Green #009393. I'd like to see both lines right justifed to the 'S'

4. Icon - your last one is the best so far but I'm just not in love with the look yet. Perhaps if it was a little smaller and tucked in closer to the curve in the 'S' - Do you have any other ideas?

Thank you for your patience. Adele

[DesignGeneral]

Hi Adele :)

[Adele]

DesignGeneral Thanks for the revision.

1. When you adjusted the size of the 'S' you forgot the embedded TM.

2. Not sure if I'm viewing your logo correctly because of the background you have it on. Does the 'NARTS' have a shadow? If so, please delete, I don't want ANY shadows in the logo.

3. OK... here is where you'll want to hit me over the head with something. I'm still not happy with the icon or it's placement. I like a logo where the elements are connected. SO... can you try something that resembles my current logo.
a. Move the 'Resale & Thrift Shops" to the right so the 'p' connects to the end of the 'S'
b. Add a 3-D sphere or triamgle to the end of the 'S' so it dissects the connection of the 'S' and 'p' - I'd like it 3-D and if possible would like to see it start at the top border in purples and then shade into the greens with most of it being in green. Recyle icon inside sphere/triangle.

We like 'National Association, etc.' in the purple. Thank you, Adele

[DesignGeneral]

Next revision :cool:

[Adele]

DesignGeneral 'NARTS' still doesn't have the look I'm seeking. Perhaps I'm using the wrong terminology when I ask for 3-D. I know designers are not allowed to copy others work, and I'm certainly not suggesting that, but I want to convey that "my idea" of 3-D is how 'NARTS' appears in Mark's designs and I don't know another way to get my point across other than by comparison.

Could you cut the tail off the 'N' so it is even with the bottom of the first letter of "National"

The icon colors are good but I'm looking for something solid and '3-D' like the sphere in my current logo.

I'm sorry I've wasted so much of your time and ended up back where I started at my current logo. I REALLY was looking for a new idea but nothing else has done it yet. Thanks again, Adele

[DesignGeneral]

:)

[Tonya]

http://www.frobo.com/graphic_work/narts/narts1.gif

[Mark]

Revision :)

[Adele]

DesignGeneral I love the 3D look & shading of the purple/green in the sphere. I think it needs to be solid color with a more distinctive recycle symbol in it. Thanks for the great work and all the revisions.

Tonya I like the shape of the icon and the shading. The letters are too plain for my taste and color looks more burgundy/wine than my designated Purple. Would you please try something in the Tablet font I provided. I'm also leaning towards having "National Association of Resale & Thrift Shops" on two lines - it just isn't readable on one line when reduced. Thank you for your design... I look forward to seeing other ideas from you.

Mark Noticed you kerned the letters... you read our mind, we were discussing that today. I like the NAR touching but think the T & S are a little too close. Could you also try the following revisions:
1. Change the green to #009393
2. Take "National Association of" down a couple points in size
3. Kern the word (NOT Letter) spacing slightly tighter in "National Association of Resale & Thrift Shops"
4. Cut the tail of "N" in NARTS so bottom is even with bottom of the 'N" in National.
5. I'd like to see the icon actually connect to the "S' somehow. Any chance of designing symbols that look like your "swoosh" with arrows at the ends for the recycle icon and arrange them in an oval.
6. Delete "swoosh" off one version with the above changes. Love it but not sure that it isn't complicating the logo.

Lastly... you've nailed the color, 3D, shading look I want for the NARTS. It's PERFECT! Thank you and looking forward to the changes.

Thanks all... Adele

[Tonya]

http://www.frobo.com/graphic_work/narts/narts2.gif

[Mark]

Here you go :)

[Adele]

Tonya I'd like to see a smaller icon more integrated with the text. While I like that icon and the shading in it... I'm still looking for something more contemporary and unique. I'm trying to stay away from anything that resembles recycle symbol clip art. Thank you for the revision and for working with my font... look forward to seeing more of your ideas. Adele

Mark Definitely like what you did in the bottom logo! Would you please try to following:

1. Space the T and S so they "don't quite touch" the other letters. (Leave NAR as is)

2. Icon - I love your concept, so would you please refine it a bit. Shorten the arrow that connects to the 'S' a little so the narrow part of the arrow connects to the 'S' more seamlessly and shade it out from purple to green. With the 1st arrow shorter, you should be able to move the 2nd and 3rd arrows slightly down and right so they fit into the bottom curve of the 'S' better. I don't want them to touch the 'S' just to follow that inner curve. (OPTIONAL: I'd like to see some shading on the 2nd and 3rd arrows from darker to lighter at arrow tip. Maybe even using 3 different colors of green from the current dark to Apple Green on the last arrow - however, that does not have to be done in order for me to make a decision.)

3. Right justify the two lines with our full name.

4. Lastly... could I see the version both with and without the 'swoosh' --- somehow it seems like we need something else in addition to the icon to bring in the green.

Can't wait to see these changes! Thanks for all your efforts. Adele

[Mark]

Here it is!:D

[Adele]

Mark You did a fantastic job of blending the arrows into the 'S' -- it looks exactly as I had hoped it would.

Before decision day, we'd like to see how it will look in blk/wht - grayscale - and in a reduced size.

While you're at it, the TM disappeared from the 'S' and we'd like to see it with the two lines (our full name) moved up a little bit closer to 'NARTS'.

Thank you VERY much for your time, talent and patience... have a great weekend. Adele :)

PS. Just work on the one with the 'swoosh'

[Mark]

Here's the latest revisions. Sorry about the "TM" it got lost behind the "S" somehow.:blush:

[Adele]

Mark - It looks better in blk/wht than I thought it would!

One LAST favor, please. Could we see full color version reduced about 25 - 35% smaller than the size of the black one? We have to provide our members with a small logo to use to use on their sites to link back to ours.

Thanks again... Adele

[Mark]

Here you go :)

[Adele]

To All Designers: Our contest is scheduled to end on Wed. 9/15 --- We haven't had a new entry or revision (except for Mark's responses) in 4 days. Is anyone else working on or planning to post something?

If you are please let me know and we'll gladly wait for your entry. If no one responds tomorrow, I may as well end the contest early and get on to revisions... if this isn't a problem for the moderators.

Thanks to everyone who has worked on this project so far. Adele

[Adele]

MARK... for a design I'm thrilled with. He nailed the 3-D look I wanted and integrated an icon that's perfect for us.

Thanks to all the designers who entered our contest for your talent and efforts, especially to DesignGeneral who stuck with us thru a number of revisions.

I hope you'll enter our next contest for a Conference logo.

Moderators, please move this thread to revisions. Thanks, Adele

:clap:

[Adele]

Mark ... thought I'd get started. Don't be scared, it's not as bad as it looks.

1. Can you shade the 'swoosh' to match the first arrow coming off the 'S' - start it with the darkest purple on the left and shade to lighter purples then light green shading into the current green on the right side. I'd think the purples should end somewhere over the 'R' but use your judgement when you work on it. I'd also like the 'swoosh' to have the same 3D look the arrows have, please. The first arrow may need a little more shading taking it from the light purple to a lighter green before fading into the current green.

(BTW... the above shading is going to replace the idea of using 3 different greens on the arrows that I mentioned in an earlier revision.)

2. Can you put the cross bar back in the 'R' in 'NARTS' -- I like it the way it is, think it's kind of edgy, but someone thought it looked like a strange 'P' - if you have another idea for it give it a try.

3. (From now on "Full Name" refers to "National Association of Resale & Thrift Shops" - tired of typing it.) I'd like to see both lines the same length. Perhaps if you took the first line up 1 point in size and extended the letter kerning. Please don't change the placement of the bottom line -- don't want it dropped lower than the lowest part of the 'S'

4. I still think the 'T' and 'S' in NARTS are a little too close. Can you give them a tiny bit more spacing.

5. I'm guessing you already have the TM transparent which is how I'd like it in the finished design.

What font are you using for the full name? Couldn't tell if it was Arial or not. Is the color of the full name #8900D0 - if not please change it.

That's it for now. Hope I'm not being too detailed.

I don't want revisions to hold up your payment but I'm not in a real rush so if you are busy with other projects just say so... I'll glad wait 'til you have time. I won't be available from Wed. afternoon until Thurs. night because of Rosh Hashanah.

Lastly... thank you for a wonderful design. When I saw the icon swirling off the 'S' I knew you'd acheived the right look! Adele

[Mark]

Thanks for chosing my design Adele.
I'll have the revisions for you hopefully within 24 hrs.
It's been a pleasure working with you. :)

Mark

[Mark]

Hi Adele, here's the changes you requested.

[Mark]

P.S. The font used is "Verdana" not "Arial"

[Adele]

Hi Mark...

We are SO close!

1. Put the full cross bar in the 'N' (I got out-voted)

2. The space between the 'T' and 'S' is perfect. Can you put the same size space between the 'R' and 'T'

3. The first arrow off the 'S' looked better in the last revision. It looks like you added dark purple between the 'S' and the arrow. What I wanted was for the beginning of the green to be lightened and then blend into the dark green. It also got a little thick and blurry where the 'S' and arrow blend together.

4. 'Swoosh' - could you smooth out the underside on the left. I'd like the blend into green to start a little more to the left - by the end of the 'R'

I hope I'm not driving you crazy. Thanks so much for your patience, Adele

[Mark]

Originally posted by Adele
Hi Mark...

What I wanted was for the beginning of the green to be lightened and then blend into the dark green.


The problem is as soon as you blend the green and purple together, it will create a blueish darker colour inbetween. This can't be helped because colors overlapping each other create a new color. Lightening the green doesn't help, it just makes the middle color bluer. I would suggest going back to the previous version. Please advise.:)

[Adele]

go back to the previous revision of the blending of the 'S' and arrow. However, leave the other changes as is and please continue with the spacing in NARTS, etc. Just match the shading in the 'swoosh' to the shading in the first arrow. Thanks for explaining... Adele

[Mark]

I've tweaked everything so now it looks smooth and sharp.
Hope you like it! :D

[Adele]

Mark... one last favor. Could I see it in 325 pixels wide, please? That's closer to the size I'll be using it on the Web site.

Just trying to make one final decision - should the 'swoosh' be all green or leave the purple shading. What's your professional opinion? (I thought the shading helped connect it to the recycle symbol coming off the 'S' but maybe I've only runined it... not sure.)

Sorry to be so nit-picky, but this is our 3rd logo because we never had a professional one - and this one we'll be living with for a LONG time.

Thank you, Adele :)

[Mark]

To be honest, I wasn't too thrilled at blending the purple and green on the swoosh. However, it's starting to grow on me. I find that it's a nice balance with the recycle blend as a well as it seems to have more of a starting point.

[Mark]

;)

[Adele]

Thanks for your honesty... I trust your opinion on the swoosh, so let's leave it as it. Looks like we're done!

Here is what I originally posted about formats I needed:

"Formats: From what I’ve seen here, I’m guessing I need:
.GIF - .JPG - .BMP - .TIF - .WMF - .PSD - .EPS - files with Transparent background
At least 3 copies in Scalable Vector (1 each; Full Color, Grayscale and Black/White)"

Will I be able to reduce the size without losing any clarity or do I need to give you specific sizes???

I also need a second version (as per my original post) for our members to use.

1. Add Member of: above the logo - (Verdana or Arial - Purple - include the colon - Left justify over the N in NARTS)

2. Add "Your Assurance of Professionalism" - (Verdana or Arial - in Italic - Include Quote Marks - Green - Center under Resale & Thrift Shops but smaller text size - I'm guessing you'll have to put a bar between the two lines for it to look right.

Let me know if you have any questions. Adele

[Adele]

I'd also like a file with design unflattened... just in case I need to make any color changes in the future. Thanx :blush:

[Adele]

Just noticed the TM in this last vesion got a little cloudy compared to previous versions. Sorry... Adele

[Adele]

Hi Mark... wondered if you can give me an approximate date when you'll have time finish this up and send the files. Thanks, Adele

[Mark]

Did you receive the PM I sent you last week about the files? I was waiting for your comments.

[Adele]

No, I didn't get a PM and it shows 0 new messages. Can you try it again please.

<b>Edit</b> Found the PM and sent you a reply via PM.