[Project Complete] Due Dec. 20th - Automotive Enthusiast Community - $500 prize

jdebler · #1 11-30-2005, 08:34 AM

Admin code added by Abby - 7K469383DF7740509

CLIENT EXTENDED ANOTHER WEEK!

CamaroZ28.Com is the largest, longest running and most trafficked all-Camaro and Firebird site. It is an enthusiast site meant for technical information, latest news and to provide a general community for owners and enthusiats. Our audience is all facets of Camaro and Firebird owners, as well as other kinds of car enthusiats. We are going on our 10th year of operation and have always tried to have a unique and professional layout, quality content and a healthy message board community.

We are due for a new site design and rather than do it in-house, we want to see what the pros here can do. Here is what we need...

Take a look at what we currently have for a design, and imagine the next level of design. If you want to see the history of previous designs, go here:
http://www.camaroz28.com/articles/5years/ We want the next design to be a clear evolution of the site.

We are looking for something modern looking, but lightweight and clean, professional, uncluttered and not something that will get stale after a few views. We change design every two to three years on average. We need something high-tech and current, but not "spacey" or "sci-fi" looking and certinaly not trendy or "disco" looking with all sorts of glossy gel-buttons, wild elements and distractions. It has to be the kind of design that looks like a car site even if you stripped all of the content away from it but with no overused cliches like checkered flags, helmets, steering wheels, etc. We prefer a slightly more abstract design that is still fresh, modern and innovative. Bandwidth is always an issue, so the lighter weight the better.

The main site page styles we need are as follows:
- The front page of the site is the summary of the latest news, updates, notices, etc.
Example:
http://www.camaroz28.com
- The interior pages are what contains our site features, articles, news updates, product reviews, etc. We use HTML with Server Side Includes for the common elements as well as a few script tricks here and there. No CMS or database at this time, but we may in the future.
Examples:
http://www.camaroz28.com/articles/
http://www.camaroz28.com/services/
http://www.camaroz28.com/articles/2002zl1/index.shtml
- The message forums (specific details later in this post)
Example:
http://www.camaroz28.com/messagebd

It all needs to be easily updated and flexible so we can easily add new features and artcles, etc.

Instead of having the new site design be left-justified like it currently is, we are looking to have it a centered layout with a fixed width of 1,000 pixels (or whatever is the current best fixed width for modern screen resolutions).

We like left hand navigation, but we will consider a top horizonal navigation as long as it is flexible and expandable.

We want to stick with the same color scheme that we currently have (black red white gray), but a little change would be acceptable as long as it meets the criteria.

We need provisions for at least one top banner (this is for our internal advertising - not too close to the top for maximum visibility), one tower banner plus room for promo blocks and offers, etc. on each side. We need the site to be revenue friendly, while not looking like that is all it is about.

Here are some examples as far as overall FEEL of what we like:
--> http://www.rsportscars.com/eng/ (Even though this is a bit bland, it is a VERY good example of content layout - click through this site...we really like the careful and unobtrusive placement of google text ads and features such as polls, latest forum posts, etc. Those extras such as latest forum threads, polls, etc. is exactly what we would like to do to cross-promote parts of the site.)
--> http://web.archive.org/web/200406181...ww.hotrod.com/ (Hot Rod Magazine's old site looks better than their new site, IMO. It is nice and clean but a thouch too bland. Sometimes the banner that makes the width of the content wider than the title is obviously a glitch. Sometimes you have to relead to get the right size banner.)
http://www.carcraft.com (Not quite as good as the Hot Rod example above...but not bad, either)
http://www.detroitredwings.com (Even thought it is a LOT of red, I like this feel of this one)
http://pc.ign.com/ (a bit too complicated, but nice elements)
http://www.dsmtuners.com/ (not bad, but just a bit too plain and slightly distracting...if that makes sense)

IMPORTANT!
Our message forum needs to be 100% width so the design needs to be flexible. We will consider also having the message board fixed at 1,000 pixels wide to match, but that all depends on the overall design and how well everything flows together.

The design and site elements from the site needs to be easily carried into the message forum style and buttons, etc. as you might already notice with our current site. The message forum feel needs to easily flow with the rest of the the site so it feels as though it is part of the site, and not an add-on. This is very crucial to us so please feel free to ask any questions.

Like I said before, we want a clear evolution of the site that you see at http://www.camaroz28.com AND at the message board at http://www.camaroz28.com/messagebd

I can provide the logo but I can not provide the font. Designers can just tell me the size logo they need and I can supply it. The problem that we ran into often was that "CamaroZ28.Com" was much longer than it is wide, so it was not always easy to make a logo out of it. Go nuts with it.

Designer must provide ALL .PSD files (layered, not flattened), HTML templates of the main site page and interior pages (as mentioned above), style sheets and specific fonts if used, etc.

Feel comfortable in asking ANY questions if you need clarification on this project as I will be monitoring my e-mail, PMs and this thread closely. This site is the pride and joy of two car guys who put 10 years of hard work into it.

Our deadline is December 20th, 2005 (CLIENT EXTENDED ANOTHER WEEK!). We may end this early if we can declare a winner before then, and we may extend this as well but that will only be in extreme circumstances and if absolutely necessary. This project will bring out the best in you folks, so good luck to everyone!

jdebler · #2 11-30-2005, 08:45 AM

One additional note...there are currently Christmas decorations on the message board. Obviously, these are not normally there. If necessary, I can provide screen shots of what the message board normally looks like without the Christmas decorations.

jdebler · #3 12-05-2005, 08:41 AM

Almost 100 views and not one reply...

Can anyone shed some light on why this might be? Too specific? Too short of a deadline? We're flexible, please fill us in so we know how to move forward and get some good results!

Thanks for any insight,
Jason

**Lori** · #4 12-05-2005, 08:51 AM

Hi Jason

I think your specs are very clear.

There are a good few projects the design team is working on keeping them busy, so trust that you have not been forgotten

Your deadline is still a few weeks away, so I am sure you will get lots of choices as other projects close off, and we get closer to your due date.

Maleika · #5 12-05-2005, 08:59 AM

Hello Jason,

while reading your thread, I have been having a few concerns, mainly in regards to the coding.

1. Do you want your main site to be a fixed width or a flexible width? (You have mentioned that you'd like to have your forum flexible)
2. CSS and (X)HTML or simply CSS and HTML? I am asking because XHTML Strict markup also requires different uses of JavaScript, so some scripts might just not work (you mentioned scripts in your description), unless HTML 4.01 is used. .Do you have any preferences in that regard or does it not matter?
3. For the forum, could you be a bit more specific on what you require? A vB design with custom icons/buttons, not coded or do you not need custom icons etc.? That'd be great to know.

Thank you in advance,

Maleika

jdebler · #6 12-05-2005, 12:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lori

Hi Jason

I think your specs are very clear.

Thanks, I was afraid that it was TOO narrowed down and scared people away.

Quote:

There are a good few projects the design team is working on keeping them busy, so trust that you have not been forgotten

Your deadline is still a few weeks away, so I am sure you will get lots of choices as other projects close off, and we get closer to your due date.

Well, two weeks away to be precise.

As I mentioned, I will extend it but only if absolutely necessary (that is allowed, correct?)

Thank you for the clarification and the thoughts.

jdebler · #7 12-05-2005, 12:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maleika

1. Do you want your main site to be a fixed width or a flexible width? (You have mentioned that you'd like to have your forum flexible)

When I said...
"Instead of having the new site design be left-justified like it currently is, we are looking to have it a centered layout with a max width of 1,000 pixels (or whatever is the current best fixed width for modern screen resolutions)."

I meant FIXED and not MAX width. I will edit this for clarification. The message forum needs to be 100% flexible width like it is now. However, if someone wants to get experimental, we are open to other ideas. Does this accurately answer your question?

Quote:

2. CSS and (X)HTML or simply CSS and HTML? I am asking because XHTML Strict markup also requires different uses of JavaScript, so some scripts might just not work (you mentioned scripts in your description), unless HTML 4.01 is used. .Do you have any preferences in that regard or does it not matter?

Standard HTML and CSS stylesheets. We are not very wild or adverturous with the code, we like to keep it simple for now.

Quote:

3. For the forum, could you be a bit more specific on what you require? A vB design with custom icons/buttons, not coded or do you not need custom icons etc.? That'd be great to know.

The "main site" (non-message board) should be designed while keeping the standard VBulletin elements in mind. I am referring to the elements like "NEW THREAD" button, "POST REPLY" button, small icons that may be used on both the message board and the main site, etc...

Here's an example...

Load our current site:
http://www.camaroz28.com/index.shtml

Notice the "LATEST NEWS" image. It (and other images) are similar in style to the images on our message board, such as this image here:
http://web.camaross.com/forums/image.../forum_new.gif
here:
http://web.camaross.com/forums/image.../newthread.gif
Images here:
http://web.camaross.com/forums/showp...21&postcount=1
(for example, the icons near the bottom edge of the post on the right and left sides).

Also note that the menu that runs through the entire site:
http://www.camaroz28.com/img/lnav.gif
Has the same style as the "NEW THREAD" button here:
http://web.camaross.com/forums/image.../newthread.gif

I am just saying that when designing the main site, try to design it so the style can easily be carried over to the standard VBulletin elements.

I surely don't mean to make things complicated.

Quote:

Thank you in advance,

Thank you for the interest! Any more questions, ask away!

-Jason

Maleika · #8 12-05-2005, 01:04 PM

Oh, I get it now. Thank you for clarifying.

I will work on a concept for your project.

Kind regards,

Maleika

**will** · #9 12-06-2005, 12:32 AM

Here is the first concept

jdebler · #10 12-06-2005, 06:56 AM

Wow...great start.

The color scheme is definitely different for us and I really like the choice of grey shades, but I am not sure if I like the oranges more than our curent reds. Old habits die hard.

I like the subtle stripes and the slight techical elements, but I think the font needs to be a bit more technical, possibly a pixel font?

Unfortunately, we prefer not to have a blocky/modular "VBAdvanced" type of layout.
(http://www.vbadvanced.com)
Check my examples in my first post.

The top nav needs potential to be expanded upon in case we add new features. I know that this is NOT easy when designing a top nav.

Great start, just needs to be more evolutionary from our current design. Thanks for the effort and the first submission!

-Jason

**will** · #11 12-06-2005, 01:06 PM

Ok, here is the review. I worked on a left column module, eliminated the shadows, gave more detail and complexity to the shapes.

Let me know your ideas,

jdebler · #12 12-06-2005, 06:45 PM

Not sure if I am feeling it yet.

Like I said, we want to stay away from the blocky modular "VBAdvanced" type of layout where everything is in stark boxes.

**will** · #13 12-06-2005, 10:28 PM

Hi, Jason, here is the reviewed concept, let me know if it is still too modular or if there is something you would like to keep from the design, something to get rid of, or maybe to work on an entirely different concept.

jdebler · #14 12-07-2005, 07:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by will

Hi, Jason, here is the reviewed concept, let me know if it is still too modular or if there is something you would like to keep from the design, something to get rid of, or maybe to work on an entirely different concept.

I gotta tell ya, as much as it looks better...I am not sure if it is pushing my buttons.

I am hoping to find an entirely new "generation" of the site, and not a "remix".

Not a bad analogy, eh?

Your efforts are awesome, just not sure if we are hitting the target yet.

Hoping to see some more entries soon!

Aliska · #15 12-07-2005, 08:40 AM

Hello
I will join to your contest in several days.

Aliska · #16 12-09-2005, 02:53 AM

Hello
My idea. Waiting for your comments.

jdebler · #17 12-09-2005, 04:20 AM

Sorry Aliska, that is a bit too loud and complicated for our tastes.

We need something a bit more subtle and lighter weight.

Fabian · #18 12-09-2005, 06:11 AM

Hi Jason

Can i get a PSD of your logo

Regards
Fabian

jdebler · #19 12-09-2005, 06:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fabian

Hi Jason

Can i get a PSD of your logo

Regards
Fabian

Of course. What size? Did you want just plain black letters or something in particular? Just give me the details and I will fire it to you later this evening!

Fabian · #20 12-09-2005, 01:42 PM

Thanks Jason

Yes,just plain black and please make it the same (visual) size it is now,but at 300 DPI..it will give me room to add effects

Also it will be needed to be converted to a shape,as i don't have the font.

Regards
Fabian

**will** · #21 12-09-2005, 10:39 PM

Let me know if this is better

Fabian · #22 12-10-2005, 08:48 AM

Here's my entry

Aliska · #23 12-11-2005, 07:59 AM

Hello Jason
More light and easy version. What do you think?

jdebler · #24 12-11-2005, 08:55 PM

Site logo attached.

So far, the entries are pretty good, but we have yet to see anything that really hits the mark for us. Will and Fabian are kinda heading in the right direction, but we have a ways to go from that point, I am very sorry to say. The talent is great, but the deisgns aren't "us" yet.

Like I said, we want to be be a clear evolution from what we have now. That is the key!

I know, I know...easier said than done.

Keep the submissions coming, we'll get there!

Aliska · #25 12-14-2005, 03:22 AM

Hello
I have one more idea to think, I will create and upload one more version during the week.

Aliska · #26 12-18-2005, 02:10 AM

Hello
Here's one more idea from me. What do you think?

Maleika · #27 12-18-2005, 09:17 AM

Hello Jason,

I will submit my concept either tonight or tomorrow afternoon at the latest.

Kind regards,

Maleika

jdebler · #28 12-19-2005, 08:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aliska

Hello
Here's one more idea from me. What do you think?

Getting on the right track! We like the subtle top header, the general layout and menu feel, the subtle accents (like the hash marks by the news dates and the gentle use of greys to show -just- enough depth).

Here's some things to change...

Colors:
- The base red color needs to be just a little deeper. We are just afrid that it will be TOO red.
- Lose any "pink" colors. Our site is somewhat male-oriented.

- It needs more blacks and/or dark grey accents to make it look less monochrome. Where and how much? I am not sure...

I'd like to see what you come up with. Again, we don't want it to be TOO red.

Fonts and Menus:
- The fonts in the menus/buttons and section headers (such as the "Latest News" header, "Previous News" heading, "Site Partners"), etc. should be a bit more technical looking. More on this later...
- The left menu "cells", top right header menu and section headers all may be a slight bit too tall in height. I'd like to see what they look like a bit shorter, if you know what I mean.
- Try to make the left nav 160 pixels or so wide if possible without looking odd, the current one may be just a little bit too wide.

There is something in it that makes me think of Windows XP (not in the good way

)...I am not sure what it is...I think if is the section headers as mentioned before. I think it you made it look a bit more technical perhaps with a different font and perhaps not so tall (also as mentioned above), it would help. Also, instead of being squared off on the right edge of the section headers, perhaps it can be angular like now the top right edge of the menu is? Just some ideas...

I'd definitely have to see what it looks like at 100% width with a mock up of our forum using the same elements and styles as well as the new 1000px sizes (for newer larger resolutions) like mentioned in my first post.

So far, my business partner and I think this is a good start.

jdebler · #29 12-19-2005, 08:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maleika

Hello Jason,

I will submit my concept either tonight or tomorrow afternoon at the latest.

Kind regards,

Maleika

Looking forward to it!

**will** · #30 12-19-2005, 02:41 PM

Here is another variation of the design: